Former Pfizer Reps Press Age Discrimination Case

Another example of the stupid games that Big Pharma plays! It's no wonder that none of the the companies make the list of Best Companies in 2008. There is hardly one that has stayed out of big trouble and has not had to take out their woes on the rank and file employees.

Let the facts come out before passing judgement BP. You are assuming a company is guilty just because there is a lawsuit. I am sure you would appreciate the chance to defend yourself in a malpractice suit right?

Pfizer, like all big pharma wants to put limits on the case by trying to get the MD depositions stopped. Good for the judge - if Pfizer is innocent, they should have no worries.

Perhaps Karen, at age 55, had lost some of her cheerleader- flirtacious persona.

That can't be right. Reps are valued for their knowledge of the product, not for how young and pretty they are. At least, that's what I hear.

Harpy, you are kidding, right?

ALL SHOULD REVIEW THE CHRISTINE CRAFT CASE. THIS OCCURRED IN KANSAS CITY IN THE EARLY 1980S. A TELEVISION NEWS PERSONALITY WAS FIRED BECAUSE SHE WAS TOLD SHE WAS "TOO OLD AND UNATTRACTIVE AND DID NOT DEFER TO MEN." SHE WAS A GOOD BROADCASTER, <40 YEARS OLD AND ATTRACTED VIEWERS. SHE FILED AND WON A BIG SETTLEMENT IN THE FIRST ROUND. THE COMPANY PREVAILED UPON APPEAL AND SHE GOT NOTHING. HOW SIMILAR THESE CASES ARE IS UP TO YOU. THIS SOCIETY LOVES BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE.

Pfizer tends to "witchhunt" anyone that doesn't fit the "Pfizer mold".

Whether it be someone "too old", someone not good looking, or someone not liked by management. Pfizer does indeed tend to hire the young, the beautiful but not so much the brightest.

The games people play. In the US in 2008, employees are no longer rewarded for doing a good job. Once they get a little old, make a little too much, are disliked by a supervisor for some silly reason, they get the boot. For the white-collar worker, there is not much to do. A legal fight is long and expensive, with your lawyer getting more than you do. Reluctant acceptance and disgust with the corrupt system is usually the way one is forced to go.

It is easy to be smug about this when you have no respect for an industry, but this is not a problem confined to pharma. Cynical is right--white-collar workers over a certain age and not protected by union rules are vulnerable to being laid off because they make too much money and don't fit the employee profile desired by managers who are in their twenties or early thirties. Age discrimination is probably one of the hardest types of discrimination to prove, and it gets taken least seriously because we older workers aren't a high-profile protected minority.

Yes. It happens and rather frequently. However, the offenders often do not know that they are engaged in this activity. Inappropriate behavior and off-hand remarks will sneak up to bite you. As a corporate director for a fortune 500 company, I have been blindsided many times by disparaging remarks made by your management team? The managers don’t realize at the time that they are in a discrimination mode. I detail these likely events in my management book, Wingtips with Spurs. Usually they will ‘get it’ when their depositions start. When you hear the following phrases, stop the offender, offer some education, and hope to goodness no one else heard them. If it happens again with the same person, it may be time to sell the cow. The courts and juries will decide if the remarks are ‘stray comments’ or direct evidence of a discrimination mindset. • “We need sharp, young people.” • “We need people who can come in early and stay late.” • “They’re dinosaurs.” • “They’re too old to learn something new” • “We want employees who are young, lean, and mean.” • “They wouldn’t be able to keep up with the fast company growth.” • “We’re looking for longevity.” • “We need some young blood in this department.” If a manager allows a culture that tolerates remarks such as the ones above, then the manager will probably get what he or she is asking for. The great leader will remind management on a frequent basis that they should never forget silence is often the best answer. Michael L. Gooch, SPHR http://www.michaellgooch.com

I believe that one of Pfizer's many, many problems is that they promote young people too quickly as managers.

For every case of discrimination I am privey too, it's the same story. Younger manager resents the older rep because A) The older rep makes more money B) The older rep has more knowledge of the industry, corporate climate and is better connected with Pfizer upper management C) The older rep isn't as "fresh and cute" as the younger reps D) The older rep doesn't kiss arse to the young DM or all of the above.

For example when one of my DM managers retired, his 30 year old replacement was out to get me. He actually told me that I was a target. I went through countless random drug screens, several outside audits, expense report audits, bogus Performance Plans, dispite good sales, and no one could find anything wrong. One year later I have another "young, inexperienced manager" who was told by the last manager to "Target Me" And target me, he did. (He was actually stupid enough to tell me that I had been targeted) I was put on a Performance Plan dispite the fact my sales were excellent.

When I asked for my HR files it took weeks for me to recieve them. Looking through these files, there were things in there NEVER shared with me. My DM had fabricated stories in order to make me look bad. Eventually I was let go without reason.

However, it is evident through recorded documentation that I was the victem of a witch hunt because I no longer fit the Pfizer picture of youth and kiss arse behavior.

Signed, 49 year old female

Same exact thing happening with me in the west with pfizer. I'm in my forties and it sounds like I'm going through the exact same thing you are. I'm also seeing it happening to others in pfizer in the same general area with the same career longevity and previous loyalty. I wish we could talk. Any suggestions?

When I started in the industry in the mid-80s our older employees were respected for a number of reasons, one of the most important being their knowledge of corporate history--not nostalgia, not reminiscing about the good old days, but their knowledge of corporate culture, ethics and skills (whether they be marketing or research).

I watched this change over time starting with the reorganizations and mergers around '93-94. Now your "valuable years" are between 35-45 (and decreasing somewhat at the upper end.) The Accentures and McKinseys of the world rotate in their newly-minted MBAs who regard you as direct reports to them; management wants to hear fresh ideas (I haven't heard a "fresh" idea in decades, only reworded straties that wax and wane with consultants' billing cycles.) and cease to listen to more senior employees.

Now that I'm 60 and back in academia it's refreshing to have a degree of respect from junior faculty and graduate students. They're better and brighter than we are but they acknowledge the need for mentoring and organizational memory.

And yes to Horus and others for pointing out that age is not the only factor--certainly one needs to "look good", whatever that is. (Disclaimer: you could put an Armani suit on me and it would immediately wrinkle.)

Where do I sign up for a class action suit? Seriously, I was intentionally denied DM training and held accountable for knowing what everyone else knew. Funny how my RM always said....single mom...three kids....shaking his head....the fact that my numbers were off the charts and I was getting good people promoted didn't seem to count for anything...musta been my age or the single mom thing....team gave me a 4.8 out of 5 on a 360 feedback too.

I am the too young to be promoted DM that some of your 40-50 somethings are bitching about. The bottom line is that I believe there is equal culpability between the company and the "disgruntled dinosaurs" that has been labeled here.

An old Pharmacia RM took a chance on me as a young DM and it turned out great for the team and me. I told them that I came from Specialty with 150+ VIP customers to now 12 VIP customers- my reps. I told them that I wanted them to help them in any way possible to shine and "milk every dollar out of this company" that they were due. I was the players' coach for good reason. After surviving two reorgs, I VOLUNTARILY left Pfizer because I did see the writing on the wall for mid-level managers. I had to leave my Pharmacia RM (great guy with vision) to the old, more process-oriented East Coast Pfizer management teams. They wanted me to drive out reps for good reasons (you know, the older rep in several that would hide behind a LAT). I wouldn't do it because of their processes. There were some really smart, tenured reps that I admired and were reorg'd out of the company. But the remaining smart ones already left. Pfizer will always be a shell of what it once was...

Interesting. What was their reasoning for driving out the older reps?

I guess part of the strategy to regain the confidence of the 'market' is to show that Pfizer is changing to address the environmental challenges. One of these changes is to get rid of as many long-term employees as possible, as they are deemed unable to 'change with the times' and are considered 'insufficiently' flexible to adopt and adapt to the new culture. Take a look at all the new and relatively young faces at the level of ELT and ELT-1. What message does that portray to the market: Pfizer is energetic and full of the enthusiasm and flexibility of youth and will find a way out of this 'mess'. Retiree aged people in those two executive levels (I won't name names) are the exception and one seriously wonders who may have benefited by these recruitments.

I suggest checking out www.pharmalot.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/pfizer-sales-rep-suit.pdf It has the actual court document, which is very detailed.